This is an I-Heart podcast.

Guaranteed human.

Quarzone Media.

Hello and welcome to Better Offline.

I'm our host, Ed Zittron.

Better Offline. I'm our host the esteemed Nathan Grayson,

co-founder of the worker-owned gaming website Aftermath.

Nathan, thank you for joining me again.

Yeah, thank you for having me.

So you just did two years.

What's it been like? What,

what have you learned in the last two years from doing this? Yeah, just nothing. You know,

we came in as experts. We were, you know, we didn't need to learn anything at all. We were perfect.

Yeah. No, we have learned so, so, so, so, so much. You know, we entered it as five people who wrote for a living,

who never really had much experience with the business side of things

because that wasn't really our purview.

And when you go from being at a major publisher of any sort,

whether in our cases that was Geo Media with Kotaku,

with the Washington Post or vice or whatever else,

you know, a lot gets handled for you, whether that is payroll or promotion or in some

cases social media, things of that nature. We have to do all of that ourselves now,

in addition to expanding the business, finding ways to grow, finding ways to support

...