The State of It: Mandelson, Starmer’s original sin comes back to haunt him
The Story
The Times
3.9 • 1.6K Ratings
🗓️ 28 April 2026
⏱️ 37 minutes
🧾️ Download transcript
Summary
Morgan McSweeney has told MPs that the revelations about Peter Mandelson's relationship with Jeffrey Epstein were like a knife through his soul. The more we learn about the appointment process, the madder it sounds. And the odd thing is that crucial decisions were not written down: there are no receipts. There's a mood building in the Labour Party that Keir Starmer will need to go big or go home: come up with a bold agenda, make the case for it and then deliver it. Has he got it in him?
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Hosts: Steven Swinford, political editor, The Times. Patrick Maguire, chief political commentator, The Times. Lara Spirit, deputy political editor, The Sunday Times.
Producers: Euan Dawtrey, Harry Kitson.
Executive producer: Molly Guinness.
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Read more: McSweeney and Barton raise new questions over PM’s judgment
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Transcript
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| 0:00.0 | From The Times and the Sunday Times, this is the story. I'm Manveen Rana. |
| 0:10.3 | It's been a big day in Westminster. Two major players in the Mandelson saga have been giving evidence to the Foreign Affairs Select Committee. |
| 0:20.3 | Sir Philip Barton, the former permanent secretary to the Foreign Affairs Select Committee, Sir Philip Barton, the former |
| 0:21.7 | permanent secretary to the Foreign Office, and Morgan McSweeney. As the former chief of staff |
| 0:28.5 | to the Prime Minister, he used to be one of the most powerful figures in the country, and yet one |
| 0:34.9 | we rarely hear from. Today, he was being grilled by MPs over the pressure |
| 0:41.3 | placed on civil servants to wave Peter Mandelson through as the ambassador to America. He described |
| 0:48.4 | the appointment, with hindsight, as a serious error of judgment. Meanwhile, in Parliament, MPs have been debating whether the Prime Minister may have misled |
| 0:59.8 | the House. |
| 1:08.6 | For all the latest and the best insights from the corridors of power, |
| 1:12.9 | we're bringing you a special edition of our sister podcast, The State of It, |
| 1:17.1 | with the Times political editor Stephen Swinford, |
| 1:20.4 | Chief Political Commentator Patrick Maguire, |
| 1:22.6 | and Lara Spirit, Deputy Political Editor of the Sunday Times. Welcome to The State of It, the political podcast from The Times and the Sunday Times. |
| 1:37.3 | I'm Stevenson for Political Editor at the Times. |
| 1:40.3 | I'm Patrick McGuire, Chief of Comptainterative for The Times. |
| 1:42.3 | I'm Laura Spirit, Deputy Political Editor at the Sunday Times. |
| 1:45.3 | And look, this week we're not coming to you from our studio. |
| 1:48.1 | We are coming from the most salubrious place in the entire of Westminster on the roof terrace |
| 1:53.3 | just outside the Times' porter cabin in the middle of the parliamentary estate. |
| 1:57.9 | The reason that we're doing that is because today is a massive day |
| 2:01.9 | in Parliament and trekking over to London Bridge to film it where we normally do it was just |
... |
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