The Starmer Conundrum… with special guest Tom Baldwin
The Two Matts
The New World
4.2 • 577 Ratings
🗓️ 29 April 2026
⏱️ 60 minutes
🧾️ Download transcript
Summary
A special episode of the podcast today with real depth of thinking on where Keir Starmer has gone wrong… and why right now is NOT the right time to replace him. Tom Baldwin is the journalist who knows Starmer best. He’s studied him at close range for years. He’s still very much got the inside track on how he’s thinking. In a totally candid conversation, Tom talks to Matt Kelly about the core of Starmer’s problems as PM, what has gone wrong in Downing Street and what the next two years of government look like. It’s frank, honest and insightful. And, we hope, it’s scrupulously fair to this embattled PM. Enjoy!
Produced by Matt Withers
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Transcript
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| 0:00.0 | Every opposition leader, every newspaper was in full cry screaming, liar, resign, get out, |
| 0:11.4 | we've had enough. Over what? |
| 0:15.9 | He looked intemperate and childish and immature. |
| 0:19.8 | You know, four hours after the story breaks, |
| 0:21.6 | he's lashed out and sacked the guy at 10 o'clock at night. |
| 0:24.6 | It's a bad look all round. |
| 0:28.6 | His whole life has been about due process, about rules, |
| 0:35.6 | about decency, about personal integrity. |
| 0:40.8 | And it's so odd, that as a prime minister, for most people in the country, it's defined |
| 0:49.5 | by almost the opposite. |
| 0:52.8 | Hello and happy Thursday, dear listeners. |
| 0:55.6 | At this point, Matt Dancona normally says happy Thursday, everybody, but he's not with us. |
| 0:59.3 | He's out doing some cultural stuff for his cultural newsletter. |
| 1:03.5 | But I am delighted to say that the two Matt is joined by Tom Baldwin, our esteemed contributing editor, |
| 1:13.5 | Keir Starrma biographer and a political journalist with a track record that few can match. |
| 1:20.9 | So Tom, it's a delight to be with you on this sunny Thursday morning. How are you? |
| 1:26.8 | It's great, it's great to be talking to the one |
| 1:28.1 | mat. The mat. The one mat. And obviously, Tom, it's been, you've got a very, very close interest and a |
| 1:38.9 | close relationship with Kirstama, the prime minister. And it's been another chronically bad week for him on a personal |
| 1:46.8 | basis. He's had a lot to get through. We want to talk about that. And it's been a pretty bad week |
| 1:52.1 | for the country in terms of getting stuff done, because all we've been talking about is this |
| 1:56.1 | kind of state of crisis around Peter Mandelson's appointment. |
... |
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