The Spymasters with Chris Whipple

The Lawfare Podcast

The Lawfare Institute

International Law, Law, Government, Foreign Policy, News, Politics, Rule Of Law, International Relations, Current Events, Military, Constitutional Law, Intelligence, National Security, History, Terrorism, Diplomacy

4.7 • 6.4K Ratings

🗓️ 16 September 2020

⏱️ 52 minutes

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Summary

What is the proper relationship between the CIA director and the president? How should directors handle arguably illegal orders? How important is the director's role as the nation's honest broker of information during times of crisis?

To get at these questions, David Priess sat down with Chris Whipple, a documentary filmmaker, journalist and the author of two books about the people around the president. "The Gatekeepers," based upon his documentary of the same name, examines White House chiefs of staff, and his new book, "The Spymasters: How the CIA Directors Shape History and the Future," is based on the Showtime documentary "The Spymasters: CIA in the Crosshairs," for which Whipple was the writer and executive producer. They talked about CIA directors through the last several decades and how they've impacted U.S. history and national security.

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Transcript

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0:00.0	The following podcast contains advertising to access an ad-free version of the LawFair
0:07.2	podcast become a material supporter of LawFair at patreon.com slash LawFair.
0:14.7	That's patreon.com slash LawFair.
0:18.2	Also, check out LawFair's other podcast offerings, rational security, chatter, LawFair
0:25.6	no bull and the aftermath.
0:34.1	In the end, Helm's face down Richard Dixon.
0:37.3	He refused to participate in the Watergate cover-up thereby upholding the rule of law and
0:45.5	arguably saving the CIA.
0:48.5	Helm's felt that if he'd gone along with it, that it might have meant not only him going
0:52.8	to jail but jeopardizing the agency.
0:56.5	And he stood up to Nixon and face down Hall of the Men and Said he wouldn't do it.
1:01.2	This was famously the request to block the FBI's investigation.
1:07.0	And so I think that Helm's really saved the agency and I think he said an example for
1:15.2	every CIA director who followed.
1:18.4	I'm David Priss and this is the LawFair podcast September 16th, 2020.
1:25.6	What is the proper relationship between the CIA director and the president?
1:30.9	How should directors handle arguably illegal orders?
1:34.6	How important is the director's role as the nation's honest broker of information during
1:39.6	times of crisis?
1:41.8	To get at these questions, I sat down with Chris Whipple.
1:45.5	He is a documentary filmmaker, journalist, and the author of two books about the people
1:50.6	around the president.
	...

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