This is Spectator Radio, the Spectator's curated podcast collection.

Hello and welcome to this week's Spectator podcast. I'm Lara Prendergast. This week brought a new

development in the ongoing scandal over Roger Scruton's firing from a government commission,

after the

spectator obtained the tapes of the interview that got him fired. So we look at what's on the tapes

and what the affair reveals about the state of public debate. Plus, we also take a look at the

Irish loophole that allows people to enter the UK without a visa. And finally, we ask, is there

anything more creepy than a man who calls

himself a feminist? First up, earlier this month, the philosopher Roger Scruton was fired

from a government role after public outcry over a series of comments he made in a magazine interview.

And this week, the story rumbles on, with accusations of racism, deception, homophobia and shoddy

professional ethics flying from both sides. In this week's magazine, Douglas Murray calls the

incident a case study in modern outrage, with dangerous implications for the state of public discourse.

He joins me now, along with Adrian Woolridge, political editor and Badget columnist at The Economist.

So, Douglas, your cover piece this week looks at the New Statesman's interview with Roger Scruton

and the way that he was then sacked from his government position because of it.

And you've managed to get hold of the tape with George Eaton and Roger Scruton.

So while I'm sure you're probably not about to tell us how exactly you got that tape, I wonder if you could start by explaining what you think the tape reveals.

I think that the facts reveal what I thought from the beginning,

which was that the claims that were made about the interview by George Eaton were untrue.

And it was not the case that Sir Roger Scruton had made a series of outrageous remarks,

but that a journalist intent on a hatchet job had decided to mislead readers about the actual

...