you know, it becomes harder to argue that it is a Ponzi scheme and a massive bubble when time and

time again, it has gone up and gone up more. And the people that keep holding long term

are the ones that are better off than before. So I just find it very unlikely that it's going to

take another two, three years for people to be convinced to jump in again.

And mainly because a lot of these macro investors and long-term investors, they're holding long-term.

They're not interested in just flipping.

Welcome back to The Breakdown with me, NLW.

It's a daily podcast on macro, Bitcoin, and the big picture power shifts remaking our world.

The breakdown is sponsored by nexus.io and BitStamp and produced and distributed by CoinDesk.

What's going on, guys? It is Friday, June 18th, and today I am super excited to share a conversation with Larry Sermak.

Larry is the director of research at the block and is just one of the most thoughtful observers

of the space out there.

One of the things that has been on everyone's mind is, is this bull market actually done?

And part of why it's been on people's minds is that they had some

idea that we were in a super cycle. Now, I've talked about the super cycle before and what I think is

a misperception or mischaracterization of it as meaning up only. Today's show talks about what I

actually think the super cycle theory is, which is really about

shorter cycles. The idea is that there has been a break from the long, multi-year bear market

followed by a bull market prompted by the halving sort of cycle that we've observed the last

couple times. Instead, we may be moving into something where there are

multiple different types of catalysts where bear and bull markets rotate on a matter of months

rather than a matter of years. Larry and I get into why that might be, and in general, where

...