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The Ezra Klein Show

The Senate Is Making a Mockery of Itself

The Ezra Klein Show

New York Times Opinion

Society & Culture, Government, News

4.611K Ratings

🗓️ 12 February 2021

⏱️ 71 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

The Senate is where Joe Biden’s agenda will live or die. More specifically, the intricacies of archaic Senate rules — the budget reconciliation process, the filibuster, the majority leader’s ability to control the floor — combined with the fealty today’s senators have to yesterday’s structures will decide the agenda’s fate. It would be the gravest mistake for progressives, or anyone else, to consider the fight over how the Senate works to be a sideshow compared with debates over a $15 minimum wage, a Green New Deal or democracy reform. The fight over how the Senate works is what will decide all those other debates. Adam Jentleson served as deputy chief of staff to Senator Harry Reid when he was the majority leader. Jentleson was high enough to see how the institution really worked, and young enough to be free of gauzy nostalgia from the days of yore. And his book, "Kill Switch: The Rise of the Modern Senate and the Crippling of American Democracy," is both blistering and persuasive. “This is not a particularly uplifting history,” Jentleson writes. But nor is it without hope. “Unlike many of the structural features that determine the politics of our era, the Senate is relatively easy to reform.” So I invited Jentleson on my podcast, “The Ezra Klein Show,” to explain how the modern Senate really works, why it works that way, and how to fix it. Along the way, we discuss what can — and crucially can’t — be passed through budget reconciliation, why senators like Joe Manchin and Kyrsten Sinema continue to defend the filibuster (and why Jentleson thinks they will change their minds), the foundational myths of the Senate, like the idea that the modern filibuster encourages compromise, how Mitch McConnell understands the American political system better than his opponents and much more. Recommendations: "Double Indemnity" by James Cain "Master of the Senate" by Robert Caro "The Sum of Us" by Heather McGhee "Where the Wild Things Are" by Maurice Sendak You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of "The Ezra Klein Show" at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast, and you can find Ezra on Twitter @ezraklein. Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at [email protected]. “The Ezra Klein Show” is produced by Rogé Karma and Jeff Geld; fact-checking by Michelle Harris; original music by Isaac Jones; mixing by Jeff Geld.

Transcript

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0:00.0

I'm Mr. Klein and this is the Ezra Klein Show.

0:20.4

So whether you're a new listener of the show or an old listener of the show, something

0:23.8

you're probably catching on to, is it a lot of the way I think about legislative politics?

0:29.4

What is about the Senate?

0:30.4

A project of this show is to try to get you and everyone else to care about Senate rules

0:35.9

because no matter what it is you care about, a minimum wage, a green new deal, gun control,

0:42.5

democracy reform, whether or not Bill's Compass of Senate is the debate upstream of that

0:49.1

question.

0:54.0

So many of our policy debates, we have and we fight them out and we care about them and

1:00.1

nobody ever seems to realize that they're moot because nothing passes the Senate.

1:05.4

Obviously, the key reason nothing passes the Senate is the mutation of the filibuster

1:10.4

into a 60 vote supermajority threshold for basically everything, not literally everything

1:15.2

but basically everything.

1:17.1

And this is one of those places where you really need to convince people something has changed

1:20.9

because we've had a filibuster for a long time.

1:22.8

Because you're going to hear in this episode, it used to be technically stronger.

1:25.6

It used to be unbreakable, but it wasn't used very often.

1:30.0

So I want to begin with this statistic.

1:32.3

From 1917 to 1970, the Senate took 49 votes to break filibusters, 49, those are cloture

1:38.5

votes, that is fewer than one each year.

1:41.4

And I'm not saying that's a record of glory, those filibusters were often aimed at civil

1:46.1

rights bills, but fewer than one vote to break them each year.

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