You know that saying about how you don't know what you've got till it's gone?

That might be true of America's status as the global leader in science.

From KERA in Dallas, this is think. I'm Chris Boyd. For decades, we've had the

luxury of just assuming that the best and brightest scientists in the world were here,

working for government agencies like NASA at top research universities and for private tech

employers. If those brilliant scientists weren't born here, they'd move here to work

among the greatest minds of their generation. But with immigration being discouraged, even for people

trying to do it legally, student visas being revoked and federal funding drying up, my guest has talked

to a number of U.S. scientists who are starting to wonder whether they could find a more receptive climate working overseas. Ross Anderson is a staff writer at the Atlantic, which published

his article, Every Scientific Empire Comes to an End. Ross, welcome to think.

Chris, it's so great to be here. Thanks so much for having me. You framed this article around a guy named Roll Sagev, a physicist who started his career in the mid-50s

Soviet Union, which was like the high point of Soviet science.

What were some little problems he was starting to observe even then?

Yeah, well, you know, the rot sort of ran deep in Soviet science.

But yeah, back in 1955, the story is mostly bright, right?

Like Sputnik is a few years away.

You know, the Soviet Union is about to be triumphant on the world stage as kind of

the early leaders of the space race.

And he's kind of right in the thick of that.

In fact, eventually, Roald would come, would be appointed the head of the Soviet Space Research

Institute.

But even in the 1950s, you know, science had been politicized there under Stalin.

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