Welcome to Just Between Us, the podcast with all of the answers, some of the time.

A bit of a different thing going on this week.

You've been immature and you've lied.

And now you're trying to turn it on me and manipulate me and gaslight me.

I was trying to manipulate you.

Diana, you would be chucking their clothes out of the window.

I know, I'd be like, are you joking?

I don't know.

I guess you'd have to ask.

Someone that has sex.

Someone that has sex.

And remember, it's just between us.

Hello and welcome to the History Extra podcast from BBC History Magazine and BBC History Reveal.

I'm Ellie Cawthorne.

The Sahara is known as one of the world's hottest and driest environments.

But during his explorations of the desert over the past 60 years,

Martin Williams has discovered evidence of a green and pleasant history, one in which the

area was home to lakes, rivers, humans and hippos. Here, in conversation with Spencer

Mizzan, Martin discusses his book when the Sahara was green and tells the story of the

desert's verdant past. So, Martin, your book, When the Sahara was green and tells the story of the desert's verdant past.

So, Martin, your book, When the Sahara was Green, is a product of decades of research into the Sahara and numerous visits to the area, stretching back, I believe, to the early 1960s.

So my first question is, what originally fired your interest in the world's largest

...