Vladimir Karamorza is utterly convinced that Russia can one day become what he calls a boring democracy.

He remembers the hope surrounding Boris Yeltsin's presidential election in 1991 when he became the first popularly elected head of state in Russian history.

That promise, of course, was fleeting and has all but disappeared in the quarter century of Vladimir Putin's rule.

But it's impossible for Karamazza to shake that vision of what his homeland could be.

And his decades of dedication to

realizing that vision have, on more than one occasion, nearly cost him his life. From KERA in

Dallas, this is think. I'm Chris Boyd. In 2015, and again in 2017, Karamaza was put into a coma

after being poisoned by the Russian government. And in

2023, after speaking out against the invasion of Ukraine, he was sentenced to 25 years in a

Siberian prison colony. He was convinced that was where he would die, just as his friend

Alexei Navalny had earlier this year. Instead, because of the tireless work of human rights

activists, including his wife, Yvgenia, Karmerza was freed in August's historic prisoner swap,

the same one that returned Wall Street Journal reporter Evan Gerskovich and former U.S. Marine,

Paul Whelan, to the United States. Since then, both Vladimir and Yevgenia have continued their crusade for a

democratic Russia. Last week, they were guests at an event at the George W. Bush Presidential Center,

and they joined me afterward to talk about their efforts.

Afghanistan, Vladimir, welcome to think. Thank you so much for having us.

Vladimir Putin is afraid of you, which makes you very

dangerous in his mind. When did you realize the extent to which you posed a threat to what he

wants to do? Well, Vladimir Putin is like any other dictator, afraid most of all of his own people.

That is why, from the very first days of his rule, he started going after independent media,

started going after against political opposition.

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