There's something else that makes me a bit hopeful, I don't know what you think about it.

I feel that most low-motion transformation, whether it's in politics, economics and so on,

tend to accelerate in full speed towards the end.

I mean, if I'm thinking about the fall of South Vietnam,

the fall of regimes, like in South Africa,

and so on, surely 10 years before, people would have talked like I talk now, you know, kind of

undercurrent changes here and there looking hopefully for an indicator that there is a different

vision there. And then suddenly it happens so quickly.

And my sense, because I do go inside sometimes again,

I have a sense that it's much more rotten than we understand.

It's rock.

The rot is very, very deep.

The cracks are very extended in this building.

Welcome back, everyone, to a new episode of Magdisi Street.

Today we are delighted to have with us,

Professor Elon Pape, a world-renowned historian of Palestine and Israel.

Elon is a professor at the University of Exeter, and he's the director of the

university's European Center for Palestine Studies, which I believe was the first of its kind.

And he's the co-director of the Exeter Center for Ethnopolitical Studies. Ilan, of course,

before that was a professor at the University of Haifa. He was hounded out of there. We've

had him on our show. He's the first return guest we have on our show. His most recent book is

lobbying for Israel on both sides of the Atlantic. And he also has a new book called A Very Short

...