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The David Frum Show

The Rise of Technofascists

The David Frum Show

The Atlantic

Politics, News, News Commentary

4.6 • 2.4K Ratings

🗓️ 1 October 2025

⏱️ ? minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

On this episode of The David Frum Show, The Atlantic’s David Frum opens with reflections on the malicious prosecution of James Comey and what it reveals about Donald Trump’s growing power over the justice system. He explains how the United States, unlike other advanced democracies, has allowed prosecutions to become instruments of presidential will, why Watergate-era norms of independence have eroded, and how the Supreme Court’s recent rulings have accelerated the drift toward one-man rule. Then Frum is joined by Sam Harris—author, podcaster, and creator of the Waking Up app—for a conversation about Silicon Valley’s dark political evolution toward authoritarianism. They discuss how the emancipatory optimism of the early internet gave way to surveillance, manipulation, and the shattering of shared reality; why prominent tech figures are embracing authoritarian politics; and how conspiracy, anti-vaccine movements, and the pursuit of profit have corroded the culture of innovation. Finally, David closes with a discussion of Robert Proctor’s The Nazi War on Cancer. He notes how the Nazi regime advanced anti-smoking and cancer-prevention campaigns even as it committed atrocities, tracing the deeper links between politics and health. Drawing a parallel to today, David connects that history to the rise of the MAHA movement: where anti-vaccine ideology and wellness grifts overlap with MAGA politics, fueled by distrust of experts and a refusal of solidarity and empathy with the sick and suffering. He argues that the Trump administration is recasting health as a test of personal virtue to reinforce its authoritarian project. Get more from your favorite Atlantic voices when you subscribe. You’ll enjoy unlimited access to Pulitzer-winning journalism, from clear-eyed analysis and insight on breaking news to fascinating explorations of our world. Atlantic subscribers also get access to exclusive subscriber audio in Apple Podcasts. Subscribe today at TheAtlantic.com/Listener. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Transcript

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0:00.0

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1:01.3

Hello, and welcome to the David From Show. I'm David From, a staff writer at The Atlantic.

1:06.5

My guest this week will be Sam Harris, and we'll discuss the turn in the politics of Silicon Valley,

1:13.5

away from some of the hopeful politics that prevailed in the past to a dark authoritarian politics that determines the present.

1:19.9

Sam will help me to understand why this happened and how and what it may mean for the politics of the rest of the country.

1:25.2

In the book section, I'll be discussing a 1999 historical classic by Robert Proctor.

1:28.5

But before getting to those subjects of the middle and the end of the show, I want to open with some preliminary thoughts about the recent malicious prosecution of James Comey by the Trump

1:35.6

administration. Now, this podcast will release on the 1st of October, and by then, we may be in a government

1:41.4

shutdown. If that does happen, I will have some thoughts next week on what happened and why and what to do about it. But I don't want to speculate here about hypothetical contingencies when we have this glaring, shocking event from the recent past that needs to be discussed a little bit. And what I want to add to this conversation is a lot has been said. Some of it, I've been on television and I've done some writing about it for the Atlantic.

2:01.2

I want to put this story of this malicious prosecution into a larger institutional context, a global context.

2:08.9

Now, what happened to James Comey is something that really could not happen in most other developed countries.

2:15.2

I mean, imagine, supposing you're, for example, the chancellor of

2:18.2

Germany and you decide you want to indict a political opponent, how would you go about doing it?

2:24.2

Well, the short answer is you couldn't. And if you tried, you'd probably end up in handcuffs yourself.

2:29.8

Because the person who handles all the prosecutions in Germany, to whom every one of the hundreds of

2:34.9

German federal prosecutor's answers, is a director of public prosecutions. It's got a very

2:40.0

complicated German title, but that's the basic idea. This person is typically a career civil servant.

...

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