Joy Pullman is executive editor of the Federalist, many of whose writers actually have published in first things as well.

She has a new book with the title False Flag, Why Queer Politics Mean the

End of America. That's our topic today. Welcome, Ms. Pullman. Thank you for having me.

You know what, first of all, just tell everybody. Some may not know that this metaphor,

what does the term false flag mean? What does that describe? Well, a false flag operation, I guess,

is pretty similar to the one that happened with the German invasion of Poland. Right. So they came in

wearing the costumes of a different country and pretending to be, you know, certain officer, you know,

so that the news reports went out basically saying that the country who hadn't done this, you know, certain officer, you know, so that the news reports went out

basically saying that the country who hadn't done this, blaming them, you know, for their attacks.

And so the reason that I say a false flag related to queer politics is that, you know, of course,

basically the opposite is true of all of the messaging that we're given about it. You know,

they pretend to be love, acceptance, you know, diversity, inclusion, all of the messaging that we're given about it. You know, they pretend to be love,

acceptance, you know, diversity, inclusion, all of that messaging. But as I'm sure, of course,

your listeners know, that's completely the opposite of the reality. So they wear, you know,

the suit of a sheep when they are really a bunch of wolves.

Okay, okay.

One of the first points you make is that our founders believed that America would not be a free and functioning society, quote, this is you, without high standards of private behavior.

Those are your words. Mm-hmm. Does that contradict the current liberal, libertarian premise that says in private affairs, you can do whatever the heck you want? And that's

what America's really all about. Absolutely. So if you read the American founders, they absolutely

thought that you could not have a small government without a big people,

without people who handled their own affairs privately. So the government did not have a demand

to step in and micromanage people. And so they believe that families and churches, you know,

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