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Hello and welcome to the big technology podcast, a show for cool-headed, nuanced conversation of the tech world and beyond. Joining us today is the author of The Devil's Playbook,

a new book about the rise and fall of Jewel, the sleek electronic cigarettes to your kids

probably hit. She's also a reporter at Bloomberg News.

Lauren Eder, welcome to the show.

Thanks for having me, Alex.

Great having you here.

I don't know why, maybe because I've covered Facebook for a long time, but I have a real

interest in vice and addiction.

And so I saw that your book was coming out, it's just out and couldn't wait to dive into it.

And it's a fantastic book.

So thank you for writing it.

But what's interesting about your book is you know, you write about two Stanford kids taking on a big bad industry, one that harms people who see the need to disrupt it and, you know,

take it down with a less harmful solution. And, you know, typically that's a tale of Silicon Valley

heroism. And we celebrate that out here. But this one's a little different. So why is that?

So, well, the first thing to say, just a short answer to your question is because it's tobacco.

They, you know, they could have chosen any industry to innovate on, and they chose perhaps the most controversial one.

Tobacco has a very long and sorted history in America, and it's one that's extremely controversial. We made it through the

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