The Rise and Fall of Crypto Billionaire Sam Bankman-Fried (with Writer Michael Lewis)

Talk Easy with Sam Fragoso

Lemonada Media

Society & Culture, Film Interviews, Tv & Film

4.8 • 1.2K Ratings

🗓️ 29 October 2023

⏱️ 68 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

Upon taking a walk with crypto billionaire Sam Bankman-Fried, writer Michael Lewis had a sense that there might be a story here. In the intervening two years, that story has taken a series of twists and turns, resulting in Lewis’ new book Going Infinite: The Rise and Fall of a New Tycoon.

At the top, we walk through the latest events in Bankman-Fried’s Manhattan trial (7:27), the subject at the center of this winding story (12:06), and why Lewis was first interested in observing him (17:50). Then, he unpacks Bankman-Fried’s belief in effective altruism (20:00), his probabilistic approach to trading (23:50), and how his Stanford law professor parents shaped his thinking (27:36).

On the back-half, we discuss the ten-day period of FTX’s collapse (38:00), the scene in the Bahamas as Bankman-Fried filed for bankruptcy (47:10), and why Lewis felt a kinship with Sam’s parents in that moment (50:32). To close, Michael reflects on his own journalistic tendencies (55:10) and how he managed to write this book in the aftermath of great personal tragedy (1:06:50).

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Transcript

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0:00.0	Pushkin. This is talk easy. I'm San Frigoso. Welcome to the show. Today we are joined by writer and podcaster Michael Lewis. He's the host of
0:47.2	against the rules and the author of several best-selling books including Liers
0:52.1	Poker, Moneyball, and the Big Short.
0:55.6	His latest is called Going Infinite, the rise and fall of a new tycoon.
1:01.2	The tycoon in question is Sam Bankman freed, the FTX crypto mogul who was once
1:07.2	listed by Forbes as the richest person in the world under 30. That was until the cryptocurrency exchange collapsed last fall
1:16.1	when several billions from customers and investors were lent to Alameda research,
1:21.1	a cryptocurrency trading firm co-founded by Bankman Freid.
1:25.4	Sam now stands trial in a Manhattan federal court where he's been accused of
1:30.0	orchestrating a scheme to siphon money from FTX into various political contributions, real estate
1:36.0	purchases, charitable donations, and venture investments.
1:40.4	He currently faces seven criminal counts, including wire fraud, conspiracy, and money laundering.
1:47.0	But at each twist and turn in Sam's improbable story, there's only one person that really had a front row seat to the action, Michael
1:56.0	Lewis.
1:57.0	Since the publication of Going Infinite in early October, the book has received a wide array of reviews. The Guardian for one marveled at
2:05.9	Lewis's ability to quote pace structure and humanize a story about something as
2:10.8	dense and unfriendly as crypto.
2:13.4	However, as Michael and I discuss at the top, others have been less charitable,
2:18.8	including the New York Times, the Washington Post, and the Atlantic, each of which have suggested in one way or another,
2:26.0	that Lewis grew too close to his subject, that he failed to demonstrate, quote,
2:31.0	a healthy helping of skepticism, as one calm this wrote.
2:36.0	But in my view, the book, much like the subject at its center, is a bit more complicated
	...

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