This is The Run Through. I'm Nicole Phelps. Today, I'm joined by Lauren Sherman and Chantal Fernandez, two fashion writers who I've known for a long time, who have a new book, Selling Selling, Victoria's Secret, and the unraveling of an American icon.

We talked about Victoria's evolution, its rise and subsequent undoing, and what its upcoming return to the runway might say about our collective memory.

So let's get into my conversation with Lauren and Chantal.

I am here with Lauren Sherman and Chantal Fernandez, the authors of Selling Sexy.

I read it on the plane yesterday, so it's fresh in my mind.

Thank you so much for reading it.

Thank you for reading it.

And for having us.

Thanks for joining me.

So when I first heard about this book of yours, Victoria's Secret was pursuing a different

marketing scheme. They had pulled away from the show in 2019. I think it was canceled. And

they had hired Megan Rapino and other important women to burnish their image. But now the fashion show is back,

and it's happening a week after your book launch, and I think the timing is just incredible.

How lucky? We thought that, too. How lucky are you, too?

Very lucky. We thought it was like a joke. Yeah, it's great timing for us and like another opportunity to talk about this brand that we think has been so influential in American culture, particularly through the fashion show.

And it's like a great opportunity to talk about what does it represent now.

And I guess we'll find out.

We will.

The other interesting thing when I heard about it is that Matt Turnauer had already done a documentary and that came out. And I thought, oh, well, what do Lauren and Chantal have to say in addition to what Matt did in the documentary? So what would you say is in the book that people don't know about the Victoria's Secret

story? I'd say a we were aware of the documentary as being produced and and I think actually

produced as we were putting together our book proposal and maybe it came out to come out

the summer after we got

...