Before you listen to this episode, just a quick word on a special offer for PTO supporters

and details on how you can support the show.

Politics Theory Other has now been going for over three years and more than 100 episodes

have been released.

In that time, and to my very grateful surprise, it's racked up more than a million

listens across the various podcast applications.

Every episode of PTO takes a considerable

amount of time and work, and authors' books are always read in their entirety, something that

is frankly and alarmingly rarely the case with a lot of interviews that you see in the mainstream

broadcast media. And as much supplementary research and reading is done as is possible within

the time constraints.

Every episode is also edited and produced by PTO's fantastic producer Zhao, which also takes up a lot of his time and work, not least in trying to make me sound more coherent than I typically do in real

life. The show really couldn't exist without the support of paying supporters, and so if you're a

regular listener and are able to,

I'd really like to encourage you to sign up as a monthly patron. By supporting the show with

£3 a month, you'll get access to extended versions of regular PTO episodes, and you'll also get a

50% discount on a print or e-book from Repeater Books. They publish lots of excellent titles, including

Stolen, How to Save the World

from Financialisation by Grace Blakely, K-Punk, the Collected and unpublished writings of Mark Fisher,

and Abolished Silicon Valley by Wendy Lou. Five-pound patrons also get access to exclusive episodes

of PTO Extra, shorter episodes on current events, and also episodes where

supporters can put questions to recent guests. So if you would like to support the show,

...