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Intelligence Squared

The Reoccurring Tragedy of Geopolitics with Robert Kaplan and John Gray

Intelligence Squared

Intelligence Squared

News, Society & Culture, News Commentary, Arts

4.21.2K Ratings

🗓️ 16 June 2023

⏱️ 42 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

The great dilemmas of geopolitics are not battles of good against evil, where the choices are clear. They are contests of good against good, where the choices are often painful, incompatible and fraught with consequence. That’s the argument that political scientist Robert Kaplan who's joined here in conversation by political philosopher John Gray. Together they discuss how the insights of the Greek tragedians – Aeschylus, Sophocles and Euripides – as well as Shakespeare and modern philosophers and classic authors can help us understand the central subjects of international politics: order, disorder, rebellion, ambition, loyalty to family and state, violence, and the mistakes of power. And they explored how viewing events through a tragic lens could guide the West’s strategy for dealing with Russia and China today.  We’d love to hear your feedback and what you think we should talk about next, who we should have on and what our future debates should be.  Send us an email or voice note with your thoughts to podcasts@intelligencesquared.com or Tweet us @intelligence2.  And if you’d like to get ad-free access to all Intelligence Squared podcasts, including exclusive bonus content, early access to new episodes and much more, become a supporter of Intelligence Squared today for just £4.99, or the equivalent in your local currency .  Just visit intelligencesquared.com/membership to find out more.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Transcript

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0:00.0

Sometimes in life, you gotta go big, and nowhere goes bigger than Dubai.

0:09.0

A city-sized playground in a vast desert, where the tallest building in the world dwarfs

0:14.2

super-sized superyots, and there's no end to high-end shops.

0:21.0

So go big, go bold, go beautiful, and fly to Dubai with Virgin Atlantic, book now.

0:31.0

I mean, Sirling, and today I'm at a McCain Potato Field.

0:34.0

Being chased by a massive war!

0:36.0

It's just a lady bird, Ian.

0:38.0

Well, it had a real war spanner, Jay.

0:40.0

Why are they here?

0:42.0

Well, we plot wildflowers to help encourage wildlife, like birds and insects.

0:46.0

So, we eat McCain chips. I'm helping do some good.

0:49.0

Yeah, exactly. You're supporting the move to regenerative farming.

0:52.0

Oh, good this time. It's definitely a war sp. My life's in danger.

0:55.0

Ian, that's a butterfly.

0:57.0

McCain, let's all jump in.

1:01.0

Welcome to Intelligent Squad.

1:03.0

I'm producer Catherine Hughes.

1:05.0

Today on the podcast, we're joined by political scientist Robert Kaplan,

1:09.0

in conversation with political philosopher John Gray.

1:12.0

Together, they explore why the great dilemmas of geopolitics are not battles of good against evil,

1:17.0

where the choices are clear, but rather contests of good against good,

1:21.0

where the choices are often painful, incompatible, and fraught with consequence.

...

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