And one of the things that I think is most interesting about Grimke is that if there's one thing you can't call him, it's mushy in any direction.

He's just very provocative. He's never unwilling to speak the truth in a way that might run the risk of offense.

He is willing to say whatever needs to be said. So it's

not mushy, but he has such clear principles in his mind that he is able to partner in ways

that make sense according to those various principles. And I think there are very few people

that I've spent a lot of time with as historical figures who have the kind of clear wisdom

expressed over a long period of time and influential ways that he had.

Drew Martin serves as Associate Professor of Systematic Theology at Covenant Theological Seminary.

He's also the author of Grimke on the Christian Life, Christian Vitality for the Church

and World from Crossway.

Drew, thanks so much for joining me today on the Crossway podcast.

Thanks for having me.

So in the preface to this new book that you've written, you write that this man, Francis

Grimke, is one of the most

underappreciated figures of American religious history. Before explaining why you think

that Grimky was so important, and I do want to get there, and before you even really tell us

who Grimky was, because my guess is that most of our listeners have maybe never heard

that name before, maybe they have recently, but they're just kind of vaguely familiar with him.

I wonder if you can start by telling us why you think he is so unfamiliar to most of us.

That's a good question.

And it's one that's hard to answer certainly.

It requires some speculation.

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