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The Rest Is Science

The Reasoning Test Psychologists Still Can't Explain

The Rest Is Science

Goalhanger

Science, Physics, Mathematics

4.51K Ratings

🗓️ 20 April 2026

⏱️ 63 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

Why do almost all of us struggle with a simple reasoning test, yet get it right the moment it’s about a pint in a pub? This week, Professor Hannah Fry and Michael Stevens take on the Wason Selection Task, one of the most intensely studied problems in the history of psychology. They unpack why a rule involving letters and numbers can feel strangely difficult, while the exact same logic becomes immediate and instinctive when it’s about people, rules, and catching someone out. From counterexamples and conditional statements to confirmation bias and the limits of human reasoning, they reveal why we rarely look for what proves us wrong. Along the way, they tackle a bigger question: did reasoning evolve to uncover truth, or simply to help us get along? ------------------- For more information about Cancer Research UK, their research, breakthroughs and how you can support them, visit ⁠⁠https://cancerresearchuk.org/restisscience⁠⁠ Cancer Research UK is a registered charity in England and Wales (1089464), Scotland (SC041666), the Isle of Man (1103) and Jersey (247). A company limited by guarantee. Registered company in England and Wales (4325234) and the Isle of Man (5713F). Registered address: 2 Redman Place, London, E20 1JQ. ------------------- Find The Rest Is Science all over the internet by ⁠⁠clicking here.⁠⁠ ------------------- Video Producer: Adam Thornton + Oli Oakley + Jack MeekAnimator: Sam BensonVideo & Social: Bex TyrrellAssistant Producer: Lucy LipscombeProducer: Simona RataSenior Producer: Lauren Armstrong-CarterHead Of Digital: Samuel OakleyExec Producer: Neil Fearn Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Transcript

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0:00.0

Hey, hello, and welcome to The Rest is Science. I am Michael Stevens. And I'm Hannah Fry.

0:06.5

And today, I really, really want to talk about a task, a test that basically everyone fails.

0:16.3

I have a hunch that you won't fail this test, Hannah.

0:20.7

Not so sure. We'll see. We'll see. Let me give you... have a hunch that you won't fail this test, Hannah.

0:21.8

Not so sure.

0:22.7

We'll see. We'll see.

0:23.6

Let me give you some context first, which I shouldn't normally do because in actual

0:29.7

experiments where this task is given, people are just there to get their 10 bucks and go.

0:34.9

And I think that if you hype it up and you tell people, oh, you got to

0:37.9

really think about it. Oh, it's so difficult. Oh, it's such a tricky one. Then people will probably

0:43.3

spend more time and get it right. Okay. We could talk about all of that later, but let's just dive

0:48.1

right into it. This is a reasoning test, a very simple single question that involves four cards that was devised in

0:56.3

1966 by Peter Cathcart-Wassen. And it is basically the test when it comes to studying

1:04.7

the psychology of reason. If you look into the history of our scientific study of human reasoning, you basically only find this test.

1:13.9

The test is called the Wasson selection task, and it was developed in 1966 by Peter Cathcart-Wasson.

1:23.9

Now, today it has been called the most intensely researched single problem in the history of reasoning.

1:31.3

And my two favorite philosophers, researchers of reason, Mercier and Sperber, they call it, actually, they don't know what to call it.

1:40.3

This is what they say.

1:41.3

Is this selection task to psychology of reasoning what

1:45.3

the microscope has been to biology? Or is it rather, as the Rubik's Cube has been to biology?

1:53.7

Just kind of baffling and fun. Not adding anything really of any merit. So in Wasson's original test, only 10% of people got it

2:06.7

right. If you look across all the studies that have replicated that sense, you get a number

...

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