You're listening ad-free on Amazon Music.

The following podcast contains explicit language.

Welcome to the waves for Thursday, October 4th, the Rage at Brett edition.

I'm Hannah Rosen, a host of NPR's Invisibilia.

In the Brooklyn studios, we have Noreen

Malone of New York Magazine. Hi, Noreen. Did you note that I changed it to Brooklyn?

That was a nice little artisanal touch he gave us.

Thank you. Thank you. And our very special guest, Dahlia Lithwick, Slate's legal correspondent.

Hi, Dahlia. Hi, Hannah. Hi, Noreen. Hi. What a treat. I'm in Brooklyn, too. We're like wearing plaid. We have beards. We have yoga mats. We do. No doubt. I've been so excited to talk to you guys since the hearings about what's been going on. Desperate. I might say desperate, which means in our show today's an all-cavanaugh week. We'll start with a fast-newsy update about the FBI investigation. And it occurred to me that we're then splitting the show into genders, like we're doing Kavanaugh as kind of the living embodiment of the patriarchy and how fair that

character is. And then women's fury and the role it plays or should play in politics. And then,

Noreen, do you want to say what our Slate Plus segment is? Yes, we are talking about whether it is

sexist that Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, the socialist candidate from New York, is being dinged for wearing expensive clothing in a photo shoot.

Yeah. Okay. A lot to say on that. All right, let's jump into the FBI update. Dali, I'm so glad to have you here for this. As we speak, and I will tell you listeners, we record on Wednesdays. So this is a fast-moving story. Things could change. The FBI has been given license to investigate the allegations of sexual misconduct against Supreme Court nominee, Pratt Kavanaugh. Okay. I have to say, Delia, I'm a little confused even about basic things like the scope. I realize it's

only a week, but I feel like every day we get different news about whether the scope is limited or

unlimited. And what I'm curious about is, is the only way to know the truth are these sort of

trickling news stories that say the FBI didn't contact me or return my call. Is that where the truth lies?

It's, it's it. You're right to be confused, Hannah. And I don't even know if all the trickling news

stories are true because we're hearing, right, Don McGahn is saying one thing on behalf of

White House counsel's office. Then Donald Trump is saying other things. Grassley is saying, you know, Mitch McConnell and Grassley are saying, my God, it's done. It's done Wednesday. It's done. It was done before we started. And then we have, you know, news breaking news last night. I guess I should say breaking news late Tuesday night saying, oh, no, actually they've gone beyond the scope of the four original folks they were going to contact.

And now they're talking to Squee and Timmy and I think Squee is Timmy and Tobin's dead. And they're talking to.

So I think part of the frustration and in a sense it's a media problem because you do have, you know, the times in the post reporting either credulously or accurately that the scope is widening. But I think that there's also a strain of this that is it's done already. They, their mandate was to talk to these four people. They talk to them. And now, you know, they're chatting a little with, you know, some of the folks who are at the party. I think what we know for sure as best as I think. Wait, what do you mean chatting a little? Like what how do we just don't know? Like the FBI doesn't they're giving there. They are certainly, have been statements that have come out since Tuesday night that say that some of the people who were named by Dr. Blasey Ford in her testimony were interviewed now. I think that Debbie Ramirez, we know was interviewed on Sunday. We also know... And just to remind people, she's the Yale dorm room person. She's unconnected to the Christine Blasey Ford case. Correct. She's the Yale accuser. She gave the FBI on Sunday a two-hour interview. Her lawyer said it was very in-depth. She also handed over 20 names. She said these people all have

material testimony. None of them, as far as I can tell, were contacted. And then you're right,

...