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I think the thing that surprised me the most is just how badly resentment can eat people up

and corrode relationships.

Hey, it's Adam Grant.

We're doing something different for this season of work life, my podcast with Ted.

We're pairing each of our regular episodes with a companion interview to build on and challenge what we said.

Today, we're following up our episode on apologies by talking

about forgiveness with psychologist Michael McCullough. Mike is a UC San Diego professor and a pioneer

in the study of forgiveness, as well as gratitude, empathy, and morality. He's the author of The Kindness of

Strangers, How a Selfish Ape Invented a New Moral Code,

and Beyond Revenge, the evolution of the forgiveness instinct.

We had a fascinating conversation about the psychology behind forgiveness,

what causes people to hold grudges, and when it's wise, not to forgive.

I probably see it maybe a little bit more strategically than other people see it,

kind of the motivational machinery that might be make somebody interested in in the first place.

I was surprised by this point that you made about how resenting another person or, you know,

failing to forgive, you know, within reason, can actually take a toll on you. Being too

unforgiving is actually bad for my well-being. Absolutely. Yeah. There's a giant research literature

...