Hey, deserving listeners. It's just me today. Today I'm doing a, I don't know, semi deep

dive into Charles Manson or Charlie Manson. I am a little conflicted about doing this

episode because I think that when it comes to these kinds of individuals who commit horrible

crimes, I think there's some problem with even talking about them. I've talked about

another episode about how when we prop up these individuals, we not only ignore perhaps

the more important story, which are the victims or how to prevent these kinds of things or

that sort of stuff. And instead sort of like we sort of create these heroes. So I have

a little bit of a problem talking about it today. So, but I think the story is, is important

in a number of, for a number of reasons, which I'll get into. But, but also a good portion

of the ending of the, the conclusion of this episode is, is going to be about why are

we so obsessed with Charlie Manson? It's been 50 years almost and we're still, he's

still part of our lives, which is strange in some ways, considering all the other events

and people and figures and, you know, actual heroes that we could hold up, you know. So,

that's what I'm going to talk about today. This is the Psychology and Seattle podcast. I'm

your host, Dr. Kirk Honda. I'm a therapist and a professor. I want to start the episode

by talking about an experience I had when I went to France, Paris and specifically the

Louvre, the, you know, the big museum there. I was, being, I was on a little tour, this

tour guide was walking us through and, and the tour guide said, oh, okay. So here's the

big, the big moment, the big reveal, the big, the, the most important piece in all of

the Louvre and I'm thinking, oh, boy, you know, what's coming up and, and he says, and

around this corner is the Mona Lisa. And, and I was like, oh, yeah, Mona Lisa, that's

right. I've, you know, it's one of the, I'm not an art person. So I said, okay, I've, you

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