You're listening to Family Talk, the radio broadcasting division of the James Dobson Family Institute.

I am that James Dobson, and I'm so pleased that you've joined us today. Well, welcome to another edition of Dr. James Dobson's Family Talk, the radio broadcast ministry of the

Dr. James Dobson Family Institute.

I'm Roger Marsh and today you are in for a treat part two of Dr Dobson's powerful conversation with author, speaker Johnny Erikson Tada.

Johnny has written many books over the years, nearly 45 of them to be exact, and her latest book is a bit of a departure. It's a book called

The Practice of the Presence of Jesus talks a lot about spiritual suffering and

pain based on works of the writings of Brother Lawrence back in the 17th century.

Before we get into part two of today's conversation, a reminder that May is when our matching

gift is in place.

We have a special $300,000 matching gift that you can take advantage of and every dollar you donate to the

JDFI today will be doubled.

Your $100 donation becomes $200 for example or $1,000 donation becomes $2,000. You can learn more about how to give a gift online at

Dr James Dobson.org. And now let's continue with part two of Dr Dobson's conversation about the practice of the presence of Jesus with

his guest Johnny Eric Santata, right here on Family Talk.

Item number 22 in your book and you have a little over a hundred of those pages that I described

before. You have an item entitled, Pain Defang.

I don't know whether that was written by Brother Lawrence or whether that's your explanation of it.

Well, you know I deal with chronic pain, and sometimes we get very anxious about our chronic, our physical pain and we say things

that are filled with worry and frustration like, oh bother, why do I have to deal with this this is

so hard I can't stand this but talking like that to your pain only makes it worse. It only exacerbates it. And so I have learned to what I call

D-Fang pain, like pull the fangs out of it, talking to it quietly and I will quote it scripture.

I'll tell my pain if I'm in bed and I can't move I'll say pain you you want to

...