So welcome Sarah Halberg. You are an extraordinary physician who's embarked on something that is pretty much heresy.

Oh yes, that's right. Well, thank you first of all for having me today. I appreciate it.

And your heresy is that we have believed forever that type 2 diabetes is a chronic, progressive, incurable disease that has to be managed.

And what that means is more and more medications over time and then insulin and then hopefully prevent complications, but often it still is a terrible fatal disease.

And you have suggested and not only suggested, but seemingly proven that type 2 diabetes is a reversible disease, which is complete heresy in medical work.

Right, that's right. But I think it's becoming less heresy as we move on and the data become even more robust. So, you know, first I'll go back to that original idea of it being a chronic and progressive disease.

And just how terrible it is that that has been pushed out not only on Americans, but the globe for a very long time.

You know, you get this disease and there's nothing you can do about it.

And now going back. There's no going back. And you know, that paralyzes people. It takes away their hope and it takes away their control.

And so, you know, as we move forward to looking how we can touch and reach more people, the idea of just allowing people the knowledge that this is something you can reverse.

You can back out of type 2 diabetes empowers people. It motivates them. And we just need to at least agree and embark on that very first step.

Number one, reversal is possible. There are several ways to do it. You need to choose the one that's best for you. But most importantly, the idea of reversal is a discussion that needs to be had with every patient who struggles with type 2 diabetes.

And their health care provider. And that's a radical idea. So, so how did you come to this? Your physician, you practice family medicine, internal medicine, and what was the a hot for you?

Because you got the same training as the rest of us.

I did. I did. And actually, you know what? I was a Dean Ornish's number one fan in both school. Right? I was, you know, never touched red meat.

I was close to a vegetarian. You know, was doing quote unquote, everything right. You know, exercising every day. And because my background is actually as an exercise physiologist, I have a master's degree in that. And I'm actually registered clinical exercise physiologist by the ACSM.

So the preventive the preventive prevention is in my background. And was something I was always interested in. And I wound up doing primary care as an internal medicine physician.

Again, preaching what everyone taught me, right, which is low fat is the way to go. And I was frustrated.

To lose weight and to prevent heart disease. Yeah, just just for everything. It was the way to do it. It was just there was, it was universal. Right. You have any problem low fat diet. Right.

Exercise more. And it was depressing. Right. It was depressing to be in primary care. I have so many memories of coming home and my poor husband having to listen to me.

As I told him, I am part of the problem. I am doing nothing to back us out of this state of our country. I just all I do is prescribe medications. And quite frankly, it was it was demoralizing to me professionally.

Yeah. And I was a drug dealer. That's a legal drug dealer. That is exactly what I did. And so I was really fortunate.

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