It's the Brian Lera Show on WNYC.

Good morning again, everyone.

With us now, Joshua Green, National Correspondent for Bloomberg Business Week,

with his new book called The Rebels, Elizabeth Warren,

Bernie Sanders, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, and The Struggle for American Politics. Of course,

we talk about these politicians a lot because of how prominent they are, and they've all been on

the show. But what's especially interesting about this book coming from Joshua Green is that some of you may

remember he wrote the bestseller from a few years ago called Devil's Bargain, Steve Bannon,

Donald Trump, and the storming of the presidency. So as Joni Mitchell might sing at the Grammys

this weekend, he's looked at American populism from both sides now.

So let's talk to Joshua Green, author now of The Rebels, Elizabeth Warren, Bernie Sanders,

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, and The Struggle for American Politics. Joshua, thanks for coming on.

Welcome to WNYC today. Thanks so much for having me back. Can we start right in with the connection between the two books on these right-wing and

left-wing populist figures, maybe define the word populism the way you use it and say why

the same word applies to those camps with such different worldviews?

Yeah, I'm so glad you brought up this comparison because the two books weren't really

written this way, but they really are sort of a, you can think this comparison because the two books weren't really written

this way, but they really are sort of a, you can think of them as a two-volume series.

So Devil's Bargain I wrote in 2016, 2017.

I was embedded at the time with Steve Bannon and Donald Trump.

And what I noticed was just this brand of backlash politics to the effects of the financial crisis,

to the rise of immigration and that sort of thing.

...