Hi, I'm Anouche. And I'm Stephen. And we're joined for today's New Statesman podcast

by Henry Mans from the FT to discuss his new book How to Love Animals in a Human Shaped

World.

We're delighted to be joined by the FT's chief features writer Henry Mans to speak about

his new book, which is out now called How to Love Animals in a Human Shaped World. And

readers may know Henry for his brilliant features in the FT and also as one of the main writers

of the iconic lunch with the FT format. Thanks so much for joining us Henry.

Well, thanks for having me and thanks for that very kind introduction. Yeah, really

nice to be on the phone. So what was the premise for writing your book because it's

a book about how we live with animals, isn't it? Yeah, I think there are lots of books

which say, you know, what animals do for you and how animals will make your life richer,

whether it's sort of going bird watching or having a pet dog or, you know, the things

that the way our microbes might benefit us from nature. And I think those books are all

great, but this is more a book thinking, if you are an animal, what would you want humans

to, if you're another animal, what would you want humans to change in their behaviour

and how would you want to be treated almost? And I guess it grew out of, I mean, A.M.

sort of animal lover and I had a pet dog when I was younger and have like looking at animals.

But then once I went and I went and saw puffins just off the Northumbria coast. And I

think these puffins are amazing. I was taking loads of those pictures of them. And then

this kid on the way back on the boat, this really quiet kid went, I love the puffins,

probably not exactly in that accent. And I thought, oh, yeah, I really love puffins too,

but I haven't actually done anything to make their life better. And so I was thinking,

...