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Tees and sees apply, Samsung.com pricing shown. Hello and welcome to the next level Sunday interview. I'm your host Tim Miller. I was the co-host in the saddle with Jonathan V last this week because we are

interviewing an old friend of his old basketball buddy it's hard to

imagine JVL playing basketball, isn't it?

But you just got to get that picture in your mind's eye of him in the Larry Bird Shorty Shorts.

And the guest is David Grant.

David is widely regarded as maybe the best non-fiction writer out there right now, no shade to any of my other great

non-fiction writer friends.

He was the author of Killers of the Flower Moon, which has the Oscar Bait movie that is out as I speak.

Also the altar of the Lost City of Z, which I absolutely adored, and the wager.

So we have a very, I think, interesting conversation about David's experience reporting out both

the Lost City of Z, which was looking at indigenous Amazon culture and Killers the Flower Moon, which looked at this just horrible tragedy with the

Osage tribe in Oklahoma.

And so that is an interesting part of the conversation.

But before he did all this, he was just a politics reporter hack like us.

And he did a lot of reporting on McCain.

You know, we talked about that a little bit and had him kind of reflect back on that.

...