The Pigeon Tunnel: Errol Morris Interviews John le Carré
The Lawfare Podcast
The Lawfare Institute
4.7 • 6.4K Ratings
🗓️ 22 November 2023
⏱️ 56 minutes
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Summary
The great documentary filmmaker Errol Morris is best known for films such as “The Thin Blue Line” and “The Fog of War.” His latest film, “The Pigeon Tunnel,” is about the great espionage novelist John le Carré, whose real name is David Cornwell.
Jack Goldsmith recently sat down with Morris to talk about “The Pigeon Tunnel.” They discussed le Carré’s complex and contradictory attitudes towards the Cold War, the influence of the traitorous British intelligence officer Kim Philby on le Carré's work, what Morris and le Carré have in common as documentarians, and how le Carré compares with Graham Greene and Joseph Conrad. Morris also reflected on his craft, including the difference between an interview and an interrogation and how he learned to interview a subject without saying anything.
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| 0:00.0 | The following podcast contains advertising. |
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| 0:08.0 | become a material supporter of Lawfair at Patreon.com slash Lawfair. That's Patreon.com |
| 0:16.4 | slash Lawfair. Also check out Lawfair's other podcast offerings, rational security, chatter, lawfare no bull, and the aftermath. |
| 0:30.0 | Attention to all passengers. You can now book your train tickets on Uber and get 10% back in |
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| 0:43.6 | So no excuses not to visit your in-laws this Christmas. |
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| 0:50.4 | T's and C's apply. |
| 0:51.3 | Check the Uber app. The Warden is like out of central casting. Central casting, cowboy boots, feet up on the desk, reading Playboy magazine. |
| 1:07.0 | He says, he planned to pay these guys anything. |
| 1:10.0 | I said, no, I'm not paying them anything. |
| 1:15.0 | That's right. Pay them what they're worth. |
| 1:20.0 | Nothing. |
| 1:21.0 | So I do these interviews, fabulous interviews. |
| 1:25.9 | One of them is with this guy Randall Dale Adams. |
| 1:30.0 | And he tells me this story, and I have no understanding of what he's talking about. |
| 1:35.0 | He was talking about the kid, the kid, he said this, he said that. |
| 1:39.0 | He was a good squirrely character. |
| 1:42.0 | Did I think he was innocent? He was a good squirrely character. |
| 1:45.0 | Did I think he was innocent? No, not really. |
| 1:47.0 | No, I assumed he was guilty. |
... |
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