Hey, it's NPR's Book of the Day. I'm Andrew Limbaugh. So a lot of pundits and talking heads talk

a bunch about how politically divided we are and how we're all in our echo chambers and changing

minds and discourse is impossible, yada, yada, yada. The writer Anandkeirda Das just wrote this new book

called The Persuaders. and in it he profiles activists,

politicians, and other leaders who are actively trying to prove them wrong and actually

change people's minds. He and NPR Steve Inskeep get into it a little bit when talking about

the strategies of the political left and how sometimes that rubs up against some of the

actions of the Democratic Party.

But ultimately, what Giridas argues is that the best form of persuasion is showing the

kind of world you hope to create.

This message comes from heavyweight.

Maybe you've laid awake and imagined how it could have been, how it might be, but the moment

to act was never right.

Well, the moment is here, and the podcast making it happen is heavyweight with Jonathan Goldstein,

available wherever you get podcasts.

The writer Anand Giridas says he needed to persuade himself that there's still some point in persuasion.

I think if you look at our political debate, it's so easy to be fatalistic for good reason.

It just feels like people are immovable.

Girda Das is a journalist with definite political views.

One of his books was about inequality, how wealthy elites lock in their gains.

Now he's writing about how to change the

system, which means changing minds, even when it doesn't seem worth the effort.

...