I worry about other countries using AI to take humans out of the decision-making progress. They don't trust their generals. If you were so close to being willing to work with them, then how could they end up being a supply chain risk? It's just we don't want them in our supply chain. We don't want to use them. Yeah. President decided that he just wanted the government to use them. If I went back to my office right now, it's like, how would I order a pizza from outside to be delivered in? I'd have no idea.

So you're not a believer in the Pentagon Pizza Index? I'm not a believer in the Pentagon Pizza

Index. We're here at the Pentagon because the AI story that we talk about on this show

has escalated quickly, very quickly, into a core national security issue.

And you saw that, of course, when the Pentagon banned Anthropic earlier this year.

So let's talk about it with Under Secretary of War Emil Michael

and speak with him about how AI might change the future of warfare

and how it might already be doing so.

Mr. Undersecretary, welcome to the show.

Thanks for having me.

So AI's capabilities are increasing exceptionally fast,

and you're the man tasked with implementing them at the Pentagon.

So I want to know from you, how is AI going to change war?

How do you hope it will change war?

I think one of the analogies I like to draw is having been

at Uber and you look at an autonomous vehicle and people were scared of Uber from taxis and then they

were scared of autonomous vehicles from Uber, but in reality, if you look at FSD from Tesla or even Waymo,

the safety statistics are amazing self-driving

yeah so and it's like people are afraid of the change but the change is better than what we had

the same thing with Uber people were afraid of the change from taxis but it made service more

reliable there was less drinking and driving more availability more reliability so if you would

apply that to the war context, you could do much more, be more precise,

...