Hey, it's Bob Garfield. This week we're sharing a special episode for you from our colleagues over at Death, Sex, and Money.

Their host, Anna Sale, is on maternity leave right now, and while she's out, former guests and friends of the show are taking their turn in the host chair, talking with the people they're most curious about.

We thought you might like this week's episode. It's hosted by Al Letson, who you've heard on our show before. Normally, he hosts the

podcast Reveal, but here he's talking with Nicole Hannah Jones, an award-winning investigative reporter

covering racial injustice for the New York Times Magazine.

If you're familiar with Nicole's reporting, or even if you aren't, we think you'll appreciate this conversation about how her life brought her to that work.

All righty, here's the show.

You have to understand that when you make the conscious decision not to conform, you keep your dignity, but it might take you longer to get where you want to be, and you might not get there at all.

But is it worth it to make it if you don't arrive there intact? And I would say that it's not.

This is death, sex, and money.

They kill each other, which is clearly insane.

The show from WNYC about the things we think about a lot.

Yeah, he's going to make us a lot of money.

And need to talk about more.

I think we're out of kissing him.

But how long?

Five seconds. I'm Anna'sale. Psych. I think we're out of kissing me. But how long? Five seconds.

I'm Anna Sale.

Sait.

I'm Al Leadsden, and this is kind of a switchup.

Now, usually, Anna and I work right next to each other out here in California.

I'm the host of Reveal, a podcast and radio show from the Center for Investigative Reporting. Yep, that's the same place you hear about in the credits of every death, sex, and money episode.

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