The Past, Present, and Future of Abortion in America

We the People

National Constitution Center

History, News Commentary, News

4.6 • 1K Ratings

🗓️ 31 July 2025

⏱️ 56 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

In this episode, Mary Ziegler of the UC Davis School of Law and Stephen Gilles of the Quinnipiac University School of Law join to discuss Ziegler’s new book Personhood: The New Civil War over Reproduction, which explores the history and goals of the anti-abortion movement in the United States. Resources Dobbs v. Jackson Women’s Health Organization (2022) Mary Ziegler, Personhood: The New Civil War over Reproduction (2025) Mary Ziegler, Abortion and Law in America: Roe v. Wade to the Present (2020) Stephen Gilles, “What Does Dobbs Mean for the Constitutional Right to a Life-or-Health-Preserving Abortion,” Mississippi Law Journal (2023) Stephen Gilles, “Why Fourteenth Amendment Personhood Requires Live Birth,” Notre Dame Journal of Ethics and Public Policy (2025) Stay Connected and Learn More Questions or comments about the show? Email us at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠[email protected]⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Continue the conversation by following us on social media @ConstitutionCtr. ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sign up⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ to receive Constitution Weekly, our email roundup of constitutional news and debate. Follow, rate, and review wherever you listen. Join us for an upcoming ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠live program⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ or watch recordings on ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Support our important work. ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Donate

Transcript

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0:00.0	Hello, friends. I'm Jeffrey Rosen, president and CEO of the National Constitution Center,
0:07.6	and welcome to We the People, a weekly show of constitutional debate.
0:11.3	The National Constitution Center is a nonpartisan nonprofit, chartered by Congress,
0:16.0	who increase awareness and understanding of the Constitution among the American people.
0:20.6	This week, we will discuss a new book by Mary Ziegler.
0:23.9	It's called Personhood, the New Civil War,
0:26.4	and it explores the history and goals of the anti-abortion movement in the United States.
0:31.3	To unpack the topic, we're putting her in conversation with a great scholar, Stephen Gillis, who's professor of law
0:39.5	and meredis at the Kinnipiac University School of Law.
0:42.9	He's written important law review articles and briefs on parental and reproductive rights.
0:48.8	Stephen, it's wonderful to welcome you to We the People.
0:51.8	Thank you so much for having me, Jeff.
0:54.1	And Mary Ziegler is Martin Luther King, Jr. Professor of Law at the UC Davis School of Law.
0:59.0	She's written several critically acclaimed books on the law history and politics of
1:03.0	reproduction in the United States.
1:04.8	Mary, it's wonderful to welcome you back to We the People.
1:07.9	Thanks for having me.
1:09.7	Mary, one of the central arguments in your important new book
1:14.5	is a historical one, and you argued that reversing Roe was never the real goal of the anti-abortion
1:21.8	movement, but since the 1960s, the goal was to secure a concept of fetal personhood. And then you argue that the goal of field personhood
1:30.3	has long united the various groups within the anti-abortion movement.
1:35.3	Tell us more about your historical argument.
	...

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