Welcome to the dispatch podcast.

I'm your host, Sarah Izger joined by Steve Hayes.

And today we are talking to Josh Rogan.

He is a columnist for the global opinion section

of the Washington Post, a political analyst for CNN.

You may have seen his work previously

foreign policy and national security correspondent

for Bloomberg Newsweek, the Daily Beast,

foreign policy magazine, congressional quarterly,

federal computer week magazine,

which I'm sure all of you are subscribers to still.

But most importantly, he is out with a fabulous book,

Chaos Under Heaven, Trump, Xi, and the battle

for the 21st century.

And today we're gonna talk to Josh

about the origins of COVID-19, the Lab leak theory,

and why it took so long for this to be taken out

of the conspiracy theory category

and put into something we actually need to investigate.

Let's say then, Josh, how do we as news consumers think about

the Wuhan Lab leak theory, why it was unacceptable for a year,

why it's back now, who are we supposed to blame for that,

...