Welcome to the New York Times Popcast, your meditative trans-global fusion of music criticism. I'm John Pirellis and I'm with Nate Chinan, our jazz critic, who has spent some interesting conversations recently with the jazz master Charles Lloyd.

Hi name?

Hi, John. Tell us about Charles Lloyd.

I'm sure some people listen to this, haven't heard of him.

Well he's a jazz saxophonist and flutist who has had a very unusual career in that he has been a superstar, the first jazz musician to play the

Fillmore at a time when that was a very big deal.

And he's also been this sort of pioneer of world music,

a kind of spiritual seeker.

And now at this moment he's kind of ascended

into this, the ranks of jazz legend. kind of

you know jazz legend

which interestingly is is a it's something that hasn't always been true for him

so that's kind of what this story that I wrote was about, the kind of paradox of how can you be this eminence while also being sort of an underdog?

Well it seems like he's being rediscovered lately. He's getting the Jazz Heritage Masters Award.

Right. From the NEA. Which is the best that you can do as a living jazz musician.

Right.

And he's playing at the temple of Dendor.

For a second time in three years,

there's almost a joke there because the temple of Dendor you know which is in Egyptian ruin and has a kind of

ancient spiritual connotation it's it's a very appropriate place for Charles Lloyd and his music. Well, why?

His thing has been from almost from the beginning of his solo career.

It's been very searching.

...