Hey, everybody, it's me. Before we get started, I just want to remind everyone that the fight that we're facing is not about right versus left.

And it's not about Republicans versus Democrats. It's about democracy versus authoritarianism and never, ever let anybody tell you different.

The next 18 months will be the most crucial months in American political history since 1860. Think about that, gang.

Now is the time to get involved. Go to join the union dot us and sign up to be part of the pro-democracy army that will lead us to victory next year.

And now on with the show.

Welcome back to the Lincoln Project. I'm your host, Breg Gailin.

Today, I'm once again joined by Matt Bennett, co-founder and executive vice president for Public Affairs at Third Wave, a national think tank that champions modern center left ideas.

Prior to his time at Third Wave, he's worked on a variety of campaigns, including the presidential campaigns of Michael Ducakis and Bill Clinton, where he went on to serve as deputy assistant to the president for intergovernmental affairs at the White House.

He has a bachelor's degree in history from the University of Pennsylvania and a JD from the University of Virginia law school.

Matt, welcome back. Thanks for having me. Pretty to be here.

All right, so Matt, today I want to talk about this idea that percolates every four years around this time, which is who will be the third party savior in the next presidential election.

It happens all the time. It's happened in 1980. It happened in 92 and 96.

You know, we've always had third party candidates like the Greens and the libertarians. You know, some people say, but for Ralph Nader, Al Gore is president because he went Florida outright.

Some people say, but for Gary Johnson and Jill Stein, Hillary Clinton is president, but those are, you know, the libertarians and the Greens are sort of the perennial third party candidates.

I feel like this sort of sometimes get their votes no matter what, but let's talk about the people who say I can take a little bit from over here and a little bit from over there.

And I can cobble together this coalition that has never existed in American politics, at least at presidential politics doesn't exist now, but has the opportunity to play spoiler.

I would posit and the report that you all put out in December by Eliza Astro that the dangerous illusion of a presidential third party in 2024.

So give us a sense of what your report says and I'll go through it.

Well, to your exact point, every cycle, there's people who say this is the cycle when a third party candidate can actually win the election.

And there's a small problem with that theory, which is that not only has it never happened, it has never come even close to happen.

We have a guy who is literally carved into Mount Rushmore who tried to run as a third party candidate four years after leaving office as one of the most popular presidents in history, Teddy Roosevelt ran on the bull moose ticket and lost.

Since then, if you add together all of the electoral votes, one by all of the third party candidates, including Roosevelt, it does not add up to the 270 you would need to win the election.

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