The ‘Not Fit For Purpose’ Department - Part 2
Newscast
BBC
4.3 • 6.6K Ratings
🗓️ 4 April 2026
⏱️ 32 minutes
🧾️ Download transcript
Summary
As an Easter treat, we thought we’d give you something a bit different.
Adam and Chris have got together to have a proper in depth look at the government department that deals with some of the most important and politically pertinent issues of our time - the Home Office.
The idea came up in October last year when Home Secretary Shabana Mahmood took over and said it was “not yet fit for purpose” and had been “set up to fail”.
She was channelling her predecessor of 20 years ago, John Reid, who first made the ‘not fit for purpose’ phrase famous.
With the help of former insiders and home secretaries, we’re asking, if the same verdict can be reached twenty years apart, are the problems in the department fundemental?
In this second of three episodes in the series, former home secretaries compare notes on leading the department. They are:
- Amber Rudd, Conservative Home Secretary 2016-2018 - Charles Clarke, Labour Home Secretary 2004-2006
You can now listen to Newscast on a smart speaker. If you want to listen, just say "Ask BBC Sounds to play Newscast”. It works on most smart speakers.
You can join our Newscast online community here: https://bbc.in/newscastdiscord
Get in touch with Newscast by emailing newscast@bbc.co.uk or send us a WhatsApp on +44 0330 123 9480.
New episodes released every day. If you're in the UK, for more News and Current Affairs podcasts from the BBC, listen on BBC Sounds: https://bbc.in/4guXgXd
Newscast brings you daily analysis of the latest political news stories from the BBC.
The presenters were Adam Fleming and Chris Mason. It was made by the series producer Chris Flynn with Harry Craig. The technical producer was Michael Regaard. The social producer was Grace Braddock. The assistant editor is Chris Gray. The senior news editor is Sam Bonham.
Transcript
Click on a timestamp to play from that location
| 0:00.0 | BBC Sounds, Music, Radio, Podcasts. |
| 0:05.7 | Hello, Chris, should we explain the concept of episode two in our mini-series about the home office? |
| 0:10.7 | Why not? |
| 0:11.7 | We have invited two former Home Secretaries from different political perspectives to talk about some of the challenges that they faced in their time in office, in the hope that that |
| 0:22.0 | will illuminate what it's a bit like being Home Secretary now. And there are only Home Secretary |
| 0:27.0 | who have, or former Home Secretaries, who have been either at the point that they were serving, |
| 0:33.2 | Labour politicians or Conservative politicians, but, such as the competitive and fluid nature of |
| 0:39.3 | politics these days, newscasters may spot that there are some former home secretaries who are no |
| 0:44.2 | longer in either the Labour Party or the Conservative Party. We did invite Suella Braverman, a former |
| 0:50.0 | conservative home secretary, now in Reform UK, onto this episode. And the fast-forwarded version is that she first said yes and then said no because of some diary issues. So she wasn't invited, but couldn't make it. |
| 1:05.0 | But you can hear which former Home Secretaries did turn up in this episode of Newscast. Newscast from the BBC. |
| 1:11.6 | Our system is not fit for purpose. |
| 1:14.4 | The Home Office was a graveyard for politicians. |
| 1:16.9 | It's not a poison chalice. |
| 1:17.9 | It's a three-course meal with coffee and dessert. |
| 1:20.5 | We have been doing something about it. |
| 1:22.1 | A plane taking off to Rwanda. |
| 1:24.1 | That's my dream. |
| 1:25.0 | I wish it were possible to say that there isn't a problem here. |
| 1:29.8 | Hello from the newscast studio where Chris and I have been joined by a duo of former |
| 1:35.0 | Home Secretaries. With us is Charles Clark, who is a Labour Home Secretary in 2004 to 2006. Hello, |
| 1:41.3 | Charles. Hi. And Amber Rudd was Home Secretary between 2016 and 2018. |
... |
Please login to see the full transcript.
Disclaimer: The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from BBC, and are the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Tapesearch.
Generated transcripts are the property of BBC and are distributed freely under the Fair Use doctrine. Transcripts generated by Tapesearch are not guaranteed to be accurate.
Copyright © Tapesearch 2026.