meta_pixel
Tapesearch Logo
Log in
Science Magazine Podcast

The Normals | Episode 2

Science Magazine Podcast

Science Podcast

Science, News, News Commentary

4.3842 Ratings

🗓️ 14 April 2026

⏱️ 27 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

Last time on The Normals, we learned that in the 1950s, the National Institutes of Health (NIH) wanted to recruit many healthy volunteers for basic research. Two peace churches, the Mennonites and the Church of the Brethren, had an excess of healthy human volunteers. The “Normals” recruited from these Anabaptist churches were surprisingly happy, even as they went through sometimes painful procedures. In this follow-up episode, we hear about how the sources of normal human subjects changed in the 1960s and why NIH researchers felt they needed to expand their search for normal people. We also learn about the first death in the program and the shifting motives on the parts of the researchers and volunteers. Final episode drops next Tuesday, April 21. All Normals episodes In this episode: Laura Stark, history professor at the Center for Medicine, Health, and Society at Vanderbilt University Ken Naas, former Normal patient Cindy Jansen, former Normal patient Dale Horst, former Normal patient Sarah Crespi, Science Podcast senior host and producer Additional resources: The Normals: A People’s History of Modern America in Five Human Experiments by Laura Stark Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Transcript

Click on a timestamp to play from that location

0:00.0

Last time on the normals, we learned that in the 1950s, the National Institutes of Health had lots of money

0:14.0

and wanted to recruit healthy volunteers for their research.

0:18.0

The institution's goal was to study normal human physiology, test drugs

0:22.2

and treatments on healthy people, instead of sick people. Two peace churches, Mennonites

0:27.3

and the Church of the Brethren, had an excess of healthy human volunteers. These were conscientious

0:32.6

objectors looking for alternative service instead of being drafted to serve in the war.

0:39.0

These were the normals.

0:44.4

And the normal surprisingly flourished at NIH, supporting each other while they underwent sometimes painful and dangerous procedures.

0:47.5

On off-study days, they had picnics and bopped around the D.C. area.

0:52.0

In this episode, we look at how a program that started with religious

0:55.4

objectors in the 1950s expanded to include more and more people from all over the country.

1:05.7

One of the big concerns that started to arise in the late 1950s was just this worry that there was something fishy with the data.

1:15.5

Laura Stark is a science historian and author of the book The Normals, a people's history of modern America in five human experiments.

1:24.1

She says the NIH researchers were noticing that this big program that they'd set up in the 50s with all these happy, healthy normals, their numbers were all over the map, especially when it came to psychological research.

1:36.3

They were kind of at a loss for how they could actually come up with some sort of scientifically interesting results given the data they were getting back.

1:45.9

So there was a ton of variety.

1:47.8

I really thought homogeneity was going to be the problem.

1:50.4

I know. I know, right? Yeah. No. It was not.

1:54.4

And the NIH scientists were pretty convinced that it was the subjects who were the problem.

2:00.0

Not their study designs, not their approach

2:02.4

to studying schizophrenia, not the use of LSD in all of these people.

2:06.6

An I.H did a survey on the normality of normals that they had on hand in the late 1950s.

...

Please login to see the full transcript.

Disclaimer: The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from Science Podcast, and are the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Tapesearch.

Generated transcripts are the property of Science Podcast and are distributed freely under the Fair Use doctrine. Transcripts generated by Tapesearch are not guaranteed to be accurate.

Copyright © Tapesearch 2026.