Howdy everybody? Welcome back to another episode of Gear 30 on the Blister Podcast Network.

My name is Luke Kappa. I am the managing editor at Blister, and you can check out everything we're doing and reviewing over at blister review.com.

For today's episode, we're airing one of our panel sessions from Blister Summit 2025.

This one is focused on one of my favorite topics, technical apparel, and why just about all

of it has changed in the past year or so.

Specifically, we're talking about the ban on Phafos chemicals, which have historically been

used in countless applications across many

industries, but that includes many of the waterproof breathable membranes in our outerware, such as

as Gortex, as well as the DWR or durable water repellent finishes that are applied to tons of

outdoor apparel, backpacks, accessories, and more. Now, these chemicals were

very good at their jobs in the case of apparel. They're typically used to repel, water, and oils,

but they did not readily break down over time, which garnered the nickname Forever chemicals,

and they've been linked to adverse health effects. So, apparel companies have had to make

a huge industry-wide shift away from them, and in this conversation, we drill down on what that

actually means for those of us who rely on apparel to keep us dry in the snow and the rain,

comfortable on the trails, and who expect that performance to hold up in the long run.

Now, to teach us about the current state of the industry and the real-world differences with

these P-FOS-free fabrics and treatments, we brought together a great panel.

You'll hear from Eric Wallace, the Global Product Director for Snow and Mountain Bike at Patagonia,

Dan Abrams, the co-founder and president

of Flylo, Tom Mason, the national brand manager at Ordovox, and Ross Hurd, the VP of Sales at Rab, USA.

They do a great job of giving the backstory on P-Fos use and apparel, how outdoor apparel is just

...