Hello and welcome to rock and roll politics, the podcast with me, Steve Richards.

Thank you very much for tuning in.

And by the way, for those of you who went to the event in York,

the York Literary Festival, the event I did with Alan Johnson at St. Peter School,

as part of the York Literary Festival, thank you very much for coming along. It was a great evening.

And I met members of the Rock and Roll Politics Cooperative there, which is always a thrill.

And yeah, it was an evening where Alan Johnson and I reflected on Harold Wilson.

He's written a biography of Wilson, Tony Blair.

I've written one on Tony Blair, though I did say it wasn't entirely symmetrical this evening

in that Alan wrote a biography of Wilson and was

one of the stars of the Blair era. I wrote a biography of Blair, but I wasn't a star of the Wilson

era. So it wasn't quite symmetrical in that sense, But of course, I am fascinated by Wilson.

And then we moved on to Stama.

So we looked at Wilson, Blair, and Stama.

And there was some brilliant questions.

And it was great seeing us say some of the cooperative afterwards.

And today we're going to do something slightly different.

We have for new listeners, a never-ending debate in the rock and roll politics cooperative.

And because there have been so many emails recently, I'm not going to begin. Normally I begin with plucking out a reflection, reflecting the most topical kind of story of that moment and try and put it into some

kind of context and explore the consequences and then that triggers a wider discussion in our

never-ending debate. But there are so many emails coming in at the moment. I'm just going to focus

in this podcast on our never-ending debate.

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