Since the dawn of the Industrial Revolution, capitalism has unleashed unimaginable growth in opportunity and prosperity. And yet, at key points in American history, economic disruption has led to a greater role for government, ostensibly to protect against capitalism’s excesses. Today, government regulates, mandates, subsidizes and controls a growing share of the American economy.

Today on the show, retired U.S. Senator Phil Gramm, one of America’s premier public policy advocates, and noted economist Donald J. Boudreaux look at the seven events and issues in American history that define, for most Americans, the role of government and how the 21st century world works. To many, these 5 periods of American history—the Industrial Revolution, Progressive Era, Great Depression, decline of America’s postwar preeminence in world trade, and the Great Recession—along with the existing levels of income inequality and poverty, represent strong evidence for expanding government in American life. Gramm and Boudreaux argue that the evidence might point to a contrary verdict.

Phil Gramm served six years in the U.S. House of Representatives and eighteen years in the U.S. Senate where he was Chairman of the Banking Committee. Gramm is a Visiting Scholar at the American Enterprise Institute. He was Vice Chairman of UBS Investment Bank and is now Vice Chairman of Lone Star Funds. He taught Economics at Texas A&M University and has published numerous articles and books.

Donald J. Boudreaux is an American economist, author, professor, and co-director of the Program on the American Economy and Globalization at the Mercatus Center at George Mason University in Fairfax, Virginia. His writings have appeared in The New York Times, Wall Street Journal, Investor’s Business Daily, The Washington Times, and many scholarly publications.

Their new book is The Triumph of Economic Freedom: Debunking the Seven Great Myths of American Capitalism.