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The Town with Matthew Belloni

The Murky Metrics of Podcast Success

The Town with Matthew Belloni

The Ringer

Society & Culture

4.31.1K Ratings

🗓️ 5 December 2023

⏱️ 30 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

Matt is joined by Bloomberg’s Ashley Carman to discuss the state of the podcast industry and its struggle to reach profitability despite its growth. They talk about the murky metrics for success, the era of companies going “all in” on celebrity podcasts, the comedy podcaster boom, Spotify vs. Apple vs. YouTube, and the rise of the video podcast. Matt finishes the show with a prediction about the future of streamer bundling. For a 20 percent discount on Matt’s Hollywood insider newsletter, ‘What I’m Hearing ...,’ click here. Email us your thoughts! thetown@spotify.com Host: Matt Belloni Guest: Ashley Carman Producer: Craig Horlbeck and Jessie Lopez Theme Song: Devon Renaldo Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Transcript

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0:00.0

For all your fantasy football needs, check out the ringer fantasy football show with me, Danny Highfetz and Craig Horlebeck.

0:07.9

That's the ringer fantasy football show on Spotify or wherever you get your podcast.

0:14.7

It is Monday, December 4th.

0:17.5

If you're listening to this show, it means you're one of the 1.7 billion people who listen to at least one podcast this month worldwide.

0:25.0

That number is from Deloitte, the consulting firm.

0:27.7

It's actually their prediction for monthly listeners starting next month for 2024.

0:31.8

A big increase.

0:33.2

The estimated annual global revenue for podcasts will be $3.5 billion.

0:38.0

That's a 30% gain from this year.

0:40.3

But it's actually not that much revenue considering the audience.

0:43.7

It's only about $2 a listener per year.

0:46.5

By comparison, streaming music services get about $31 a listener, according to this study.

0:51.7

Audio books get $26.

0:54.0

Those are mostly paid subscription services.

0:56.3

And most podcasts, as we know, are free. But even radio gets $10 a listener. The point is that

1:02.0

podcasts are growing, but they're not very profitable, at least compared to other media,

1:06.7

meaning there's a ton of podcast content out there and the monetization is still not great.

1:12.2

That's partly because the audience for shows is so hard to quantify.

1:15.6

Success and failure in this business is very, very murky.

1:18.9

There are the big shows, we all know, the Joe Rogans, SmartList, Bill Simmons podcast,

1:23.8

tons of crime shows you've probably never heard of that are actually huge. But beyond that,

1:29.2

the dirty secret of podcasts is that most of them have almost no audience. And the audiences are

...

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