Hey guys, just wanted to give you a quick heads up before the episode starts. This week we are discussing

a story in which the victim is an adult, but the perpetrators had some stuff in their childhood

that's pretty terrible, and we do talk a little about that in this episode, since we don't make it a

habit of talking about crimes against children and it's not

the focus of this episode we did leave it in but just wanted to give you a heads up it's around the

28 minute mark but if you wanted to see the exact times if you wanted to skip through that we

will have that in the show notes thanks so much for listening Thank you.

Hey, guys, and welcome to the Moms and Murder podcast, a true crime podcast featuring myself, Mandy, and my dear friend Melissa.

Hi, Melissa.

Hi, Mandy. How are you?

I'm doing great. How are you?

I'm doing really well, thanks. We had my son's birthday this past week, which was a lot of fun.

We kind of talked about that last week, and he's eight, and that's crazy. And how do we have

these big kids now? I know. It is crazy to think that our little ones are eight years old.

That just seems, I remember thinking when, you know, back when they were little, I was like, how weird is it going to be when they're five and six? And now here they are and they're eight. And it's like, yeah, it's definitely just as weird as I thought it was going to be. Exactly. Well, he'll still like hold my hand and stuff. So I've got a little bit of time left because I very much remember when my daughter stopped. I literally asked her like, will you just hold my hand one more time and I won't ask it anymore? Because I wanted to remember, like, which is so silly and I'm not super sentimental. But I just knew that was like such a big growing up thing. And I just wanted to have that moment. I'm going through a lot tonight there. Mandy, how are you doing? I'm doing excellent. I got my

haircut, like actually. Yes. It's really pretty. Yeah, thank you. Well, you know sometimes when people are

like, oh, I got a haircut and then you see them and you're like, oh, yeah, okay. Yeah, yeah. I guess you got a

haircut. Well, like, I actually got like a drastic haircut, which is something I

just really would never do before. I've never known you to do that. Yeah. I mean, earlier even on the show, you were talking about doing a crystal gale thing and growing your hair out as long as you possibly could. I know. I know. Yeah, I know. I know. I went through that stage where I really wanted to grow it out. I had it really long. And then I cut it last summer pretty short and I liked it. And then it's been about a year since I cut it. And it was kind of getting to that weird medium length kind of thing. And I was like, I'm either I either just need to get it trimmed and let it keep going or just chop it off. So I just made the decision split second and said chop it. So it is short, shorter, shorter. But I feel great about it. So yeah, it's not a child's birthday, but it's something. I'm team short hair though. You know that I'm always like that. It's great. I can't believe how light it feels. And I think I'm going going to really enjoy it like for the rest of the summer like while it's so warm and humid. It'll be nice having a lot less hair on the back of my neck. For sure, for sure. Okay, so moving into the episode for this week. I am a very cautious person. I think I've said that numerous times on the show. I'm probably more paranoid than most people.

And as a result of that, I like to think anyway that I have kept myself out of many dangerous

situations and scenarios. I think a lot of our listeners can probably relate to feeling a little

wary of strangers or even just new people that we don't know that much about. This is one of the

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