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This is the Tom Hartman program.

On the line with us is the director of the neuroscience center for anxiety stress and trauma

at the Department of Psychiatry and Behavioral Sciences of Wayne State University School of Medicine

outside Detroit and Michigan, Dr. Seth Dean Norholm, PhD. Wayne Medicine is the Twitter handle.

Dr. Norholm, welcome to the program. You've done some really brilliant writing here and

commentary on sociopaths and psychopaths and all that sort of thing. I'm very glad you could

join us today. Can we start with the difference between a sociopath and a psychopath as these

words get tossed around? Yeah, good to be here, Tom. Thanks for having me.

When we think about these terms, sociopath and psychopath, you know, they're used as more

of umbrella terms to discuss what's underneath, which is personality disorders.

And there is a common thread between sociopaths and psychopaths, which is doing things that are

against society, which is where the term anti-social comes from, an anti-social personality disorder.

So doing things that would harm other people without remorse from a very self-centered and selfish

standpoint. And so when you think about a sociopath, you think about somebody who's doing these

things repeatedly against the interests of others for the interests of themselves. And when you get

...