The moral philosophy of The Good Place (with Mike Schur and Pamela Hieronymi)

The Gray Area with Sean Illing

Vox Media Podcast Network

Politics, News, Society & Culture, News Commentary, Philosophy

4.5 • 11.1K Ratings

🗓️ 9 December 2019

⏱️ 101 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

After creating and running Parks and Recreation and writing for The Office, Michael Schur decided he wanted to create a sitcom about one of the most fundamental questions of human existence: What does it mean to be a good person? That’s how The Good Place was born. Soon into the show’s writing, Schur realized he was in way over his head. The question of human morality is one of the most complicated and hotly contested subjects of all time. He needed someone to help him out. So, he recruited Pamela Hieronymi, a professor at UCLA specializing in the subjects of moral responsibility, psychology, and free will, to join the show as a “consulting philosopher” — surely a first in sitcom history. I wanted to bring Shur and Hieronymi onto the show because The Good Place should not exist. Moral philosophy is traditionally the stuff of obscure academic journals and undergraduate seminars, not popular television. Yet, three-and-a-half seasons on, The Good Place is not only one of the funniest sitcoms on TV, it has popularized academic philosophy in an unprecedented fashion and put forward its own highly sophisticated moral vision. This is a conversation about how and why The Good Place exists and what it reflects about The Odd Place in which we actually live. Unlike a lot of conversations about moral philosophy, this one is a lot of fun. References: Dylan Matthews' brilliant profile on The Good Place Dylan Matthews on why he donated his kidney Book recommendations: Michael Schur: Ordinary Vices by Judith N. Shklar The Spy Who Came in from the Cold by John le Carré Beloved by Toni Morrison Pamela Hieronymi: What We Owe to Each Other by T.M. Scanlon Being and Nothingness by Jean-Paul Sartre Mortal Questions by Thomas Nagel New to the show? Want to listen to Ezra's favorite episodes? Check out The Ezra Klein Show beginner's guide. My book is available for pre-order! You can find it at www.EzraKlein.com. Submit questions for our upcoming "Ask Me Anything" at ezrakleinshow@vox.com You can subscribe to Ezra's new podcast Impeachment, explained on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, Overcast, Pocket Casts, or your favorite podcast app. Credits: Producer and Editor - Jeff Geld Researcher - Roge Karma Engineer - Cynthia Gil Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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0:46.0	This is really about a group of people who were not great, did not be great like you.
0:51.0	But are trying to become better and she said, well, that's impossible.
0:56.0	And I said, why? And she said, because most philosophers would say that you can't try to be good.
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1:09.0	So if you've been listening along the past couple of episodes,
1:13.0	I think it's clear we've been doing it. I didn't actually even almost intent for this to happen,
1:18.0	but a little bit of an ethical living cluster. We had Peter Singer on the Princeton ethical philosopher who
1:24.0	his work sort of founded a lot of the effect of altruism movement and his book Animal Liberation led to a lot of the American Animal Rights movement.
1:31.0	I spoke to Wayne Schung, who is the founder of Direct to Action Everywhere, somebody who's been working on the
1:40.0	who's the founder of Direct to Action Everywhere, somebody who's been doing kind of direct open rescue work of
1:44.0	sick and injured animals from slaughterhouses and is now facing decades in jail.
1:48.0	And the question of both of those shows in a way is what does it mean to live a good life singer is a
1:54.0	theorist of it, but Schung with what he's been doing and what he is sacrificing and risking is someone really in the practice of it.
2:01.0	And I think is whether or not you care about animal rights, the kinds of commitment he's made and that other activists like
2:07.0	him make forces us to ask some, I think hard questions about the lives we lead and does not make in that kind of commitment,
	...

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