Well, it's easy to think that in comparison to other people, I don't really have a lot of trauma.

One of the biggest lies that we tell ourselves is that if somebody just knows about my behavior,

if somebody just knows about my struggle, then that will motivate me to stay away from it.

The only way to be healed is to allow ourselves to possibly be hurt again

and the things that you believe cut you off from other people connect you to other people.

Hey, Drew, welcome to the Dear Young Mary Couple podcast. Thank you. It's great to be with you in

person. Yeah. Yeah. We're honored to have you on again.

Drew has been on our podcast several times.

And in different ways, we interviewed him.

He interviewed us.

And today we're excited to interview you on the missing ingredient in porn recovery.

Yeah, it's wonderful to be able to link arms with other people in this space,

in the podcasting, YouTube, whatever space to achieve wholeness, health, and relationships.

And especially around pornography, pornography just tears relationships and people's relationships

with themselves to shreds. And it's wonderful to link up with people like you to talk about

this difficult subject. Yes. We've shared your credentials in your background before, but we're going to share it again.

So Drew has a master's in ministry and give us the specific title.

Christian formation. Christian formation and ministry. And then he also has a certification

in sex addiction recovery. Tell us the exact title of that one.

PSAP pastoral sex addiction professional by the same organization that certifies CSATs.

Yes, that's awesome. And so he obviously is qualified, but I think more than all of that is the fruit of what he has done. It speaks for itself. We've seen folks go through

your program and testimonies that have come from the ministry that you have, helping husband material,

...