All right, welcome listeners to episode 118 of Know Your Enemy. I'm Matt Sitman, your podcast co-host,

and I'm here as always with my great friend Sam other beau. Hey, Sam. Hi, Matt. We're always excited for

episodes, but this was such a smart and interesting conversation with Dan Hossang, and I've been

thinking about the conversation for days after.

Yeah, Dan, whose books and articles are written under the name, Daniel Martinez-Hossang,

is somebody who I've admired his work for a long time. He wrote a book with Joseph E. Lounds,

called Producers, Parasites, Patriots, Race and the New Right Wing right wing politics of precarity. And then just at the

end of July, he published this piece in New York Times opinion that was called Inside the Rise of

the Multiracial Right. And after I read this, I knew that I wanted to talk to him. And this piece was

based on all these interviews that he and Joe had done with non-white people

of color, minority activists, organizers, and participants in these right-wing conferences,

especially for young people. So it's been a preoccupation of his and Joe's for a long time,

his collaborator Joe Lounds,

to track the rising kind of visibility and kind of salience of non-white conservatives.

In particular, the MAGA era, not only, as you'll hear from the interview, their interest in

this topic started earlier than that, but his piece in The Times was just this

really interesting kind of window into how various people of non-white identities are experiencing

those identities in relation to their enthusiasm for Trump, MAGA, for some kind of version of

conservatism, but not really one that is completely the same

as the kind of traditional conservatism we talk about in the podcast a lot. It really is distinctive.

And that was one of his major kind of insights about this, was that this really is a new kind of

thing, a new kind of way of

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