The Measure of Progress: Counting What Really Matters (with Diane Coyle)

Pitchfork Economics with Nick Hanauer

Civic Ventures

Business, Government, News, Politics

4.8 • 1.5K Ratings

🗓️ 18 November 2025

⏱️ 36 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

For nearly a century, GDP has been the world’s go-to measure of economic success—but what if it’s been telling us the wrong story? It treats cigarette sales and cancer treatments as equally “good” for the economy, while caring for your kids, volunteering, or creating art don’t count at all. This week, economist Diane Coyle joins Nick and Goldy to discuss her new book, The Measure of Progress, and explain why GDP increasingly fails to capture the reality of modern economies—and how we can measure real progress instead. Diane Coyle is the Bennett Professor of Public Policy at the University of Cambridge. She is also the Research Director at the Bennett School of Public Policy, a member of the UK Government’s Industrial Strategy Council, and author of the new book, The Measure of Progress: Counting What Really Matters. Social Media: @dianecoyle1859.bsky.social @DianeCoyle1859 Further reading: The Measure of Progress: Counting What Really Matters Beyond GDP? Welfare across Countries and Time The Economics of Care with Nancy Folbre Website: http://pitchforkeconomics.com Instagram: @pitchforkeconomics Threads: pitchforkeconomics Bluesky: @pitchforkeconomics.bsky.social Twitter: @PitchforkEcon, @NickHanauer, @civicaction YouTube: @pitchforkeconomics LinkedIn: Pitchfork Economics Substack: The Pitch

Transcript

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0:00.0	The rising inequality and growing political instability that we see today are the direct result of decades of bad economic theory.
0:10.6	The last five decades of trickle-down economics haven't worked.
0:14.8	But what's the alternative?
0:16.2	Middle-out economics is the answer.
0:18.6	Because the middle class is the source of growth, not its consequence.
0:23.1	That's right.
0:28.7	This is pitchfork economics with Nick Hanauer, a podcast about how to build the economy from the middle out.
0:36.9	Welcome to the show.
0:41.4	If you follow economics, Nick, you know there's a lot of focus on economic statistics.
0:46.6	And so, you know, a couple months ago, when some bad jobs numbers came out from the Bureau of Labor Statistics. Of course, President Trump did the only
0:58.2	thing a rational person would do, and that is fire the head of the BLS, which I think is a great
1:07.9	way of leading into the topic of today's podcast of this episode,
1:13.5	because we really spend a lot of time focusing on these top line numbers like
1:18.6	unemployment, inflation, and the big one, Nick, GDP.
1:24.4	Yes.
1:25.4	You know, as we've discussed before on the podcast and you and I have discussed
1:29.0	endlessly, GDP is such a terrible characterization of what's happening in the economy for so many
1:38.0	reasons. Right. It doesn't capture things that you don't charge money for, like caring for children.
1:45.4	It treats horrible things like cancer the same way that it treats wonderful things like planting
1:53.3	trees.
1:54.4	Well, like, yeah, if you sell cigarettes, that adds to GDP.
1:59.6	If those cigarettes cause cancer and require treatment,
	...

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