This is the 10% happier podcast, Dan Harris.

Greetings, my fellow suffering beings.

The human animal does not love paradox.

We love a clear, simple story.

Us versus them, good versus evil, but life is rarely like that.

This is especially true when it comes to wrestling with, or reckoning with history.

My guest today calls it the Patriots dilemma.

How do you love your country while also acknowledging the painful and horrifying stuff that has

happened in the past?

Dolly Chug is a professor at New York University's Stern School of Business, where she teaches

MBA courses in leadership and management.

This is her second time on the show.

The last time she came on, she taught me about a concept called good-ish.

One of the reasons we get defensive when people criticize us is that we feel like it's

a threat to our precious notion of being a good person.

At least that's true for me.

But as Dolly says, if you have a good-ish mindset, then there's always room to grow.

Her new book, which is called a more just future, basically encourages us to do the whole

good-ish thing for America.

In this conversation, we talked about why Dolly was scared to write this book, what the

home team bias is and how it shows up when we think about our past frequently as a nation,

what belief grief is, the long time ago illusion, and what Dolly calls being a gritty patriot.

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