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Hello, welcome to Political Thinking with me, Nick Robinson.

When I chat to my guests before we sit in front of the microphone,

I have been known just occasionally to flatter them a little bit

in an effort to get them to open up.

I want this interview I tell them to be the interview people come back to

when you're promoted, become Chancellor or even Prime Minister.

After all, as I always say, when I'm talking about Political Thinking,

this is a conversation with rather than an interrogation of someone

who shapes up political thinking about what has shaped theirs.

Well, a little over four years ago, I had just that conversation off microphone

with Liz Truss.

And she gave me what one of those closest to her told me the other day

was the most revealing interview about who she really is.

Well, you can judge in a second.

Back then, she was chief secretary to the Treasury.

She'd just been demoted by Theresa May, even though she bads

May's attempts to get Brexit through Parliament.

She had bads remain in the referendum.

And perhaps most intriguingly, for the woman who is the new leader

of the Conservative Party and therefore our next Prime Minister,

she backed the Liberal Democrats when she was a student

...